OPRAH WINFREY, HOST: All new. Judges and juries are sending husbands to prison for raping their own wives. A beauty queen and loyal wife, her husband’s in prison for 52 years. TASCHA: I was kicking and screaming. I had no means to escape. WINFREY: A sheriff’s deputy, a mother of two. Her husband’s in prison for life. DORIS: I trusted him. He’s my husband. WINFREY: They’re coming forward so you or someone you love won’t be afraid to. DORIS: I would rather have been raped by a stranger. WINFREY: Next. WINFREY: Well, it is the ultimate betrayal, a crime so disturbing that many victims never tell a soul. But today, two courageous women who hid their shame for years want you to stop hiding yours. So therefore, they are speaking out because they want all of you to know that it can really happen to anybody. TASCHA: This is the actual pageant gown I wore at Mrs. America. ANNOUNCER: Congratulations, Mrs. Oklahoma 2005. TASCHA: It’s one of the things you don’t want to get rid of because it’s so gorgeous and it has good memories. But you know that you could probably never get into it again. DORIS: I work for the sheriff’s office here in town. I also am part of the special response team. Basically like a SWAT team for the jail. I’m one of three females to ever be on that team. WINFREY: Tascha and Doris are two women leading very different lives. DORIS: I teach people how to defend themselves from bad people. I also carry a gun. So I think of myself as a pretty strong person. TASCHA: This is my-the crown that I received when I won Mrs. Oklahoma. And the– it really is nice. And it really is, it really is pretty big. That if you wear a crown, whenever someone sees the crown, they do think she has it altogether. WINFREY: But what connects these two women is an unthinkable crime that affects more than a million women every year. DORIS: I just never imagined for people-people period don’t imagine that these types of things happen to law enforcement officers. Never imagined it would happen to me. TASCHA: Underneath it all, there was just a really dark period in my life that no one suspected because I didn’t share with anyone. Friends didn’t know. Family didn’t know. It was something that I basically took on myself and tried to deal with it by myself. WINFREY: Well, that seems to be the case for thousands of married women, many of you who I know are watching right now in this country and other countries, who are being raped by their own husbands, in their own homes. Tascha says that she never imagined her storybook romance would end like this. TASCHA: In the beginning, I mean, he was very outgoing, very personable. You know, handsome. He was all those things that I think of that someone looks for in a man. Then everything just slowly started changing. It never crossed my mind that I was being abused. He had been verbally and emotionally, but he had never hit me. WINFREY: Tascha had only been married to Gerald for less than a year when one night, he snapped. TASCHA: He was a really, really jealous person, and he had accused me of–I don’t–whether you would say I’m, you know, making passes or liking his friend, which was absurd. But that’s basically where it started. WINFREY: In a jealous rage, Tascha says he began viciously attacking her in the car. TASCHA: He doubled up his fists and just reached into the back of the seat and punched me with his fist. I was kicking and screaming and trying to get out of the car and he was holding me down, holding me in the car. We’re at the house that we lived in when we were married. I ended up going in the house and he’s got me by the back of the head. He grabbed me and slammed me into the ground. Every time he hit me, it was across my face and my ear and my neck. I would say probably 50 times over the course of a couple of hours. WINFREY: And Tascha says that was really just the beginning of a night of violence and terror from her husband that nearly took her life. So what happened after that? TASCHA: It was about 3 1/2 hours in our own home that he beat me and raped me and sodomized me. And there was even one point that I was able to run from the house, but he caught up from me. It was very cold and dewy. And he slung me to the ground, and I was screaming. And I thought that someone would hear me, but he begged for me to let him go and break free because he thought that someone had heard us and he was going to be caught. But when no one came out of their doors or came to help, then that’s when he gave me the option of he would either kill me in the yard or he would take me back in the house and kill me. And so… WINFREY: He said those words to you? TASCHA: Yes. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: And he took me back into the house, and for–that’s when it all began. He took me into the shower and that’s when he made me do all types of things to him. And that’s whenever he sodomized me first. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: And then over a course of a time, you know, I even needed to use the bathroom and I asked permission to sit and use the bathroom and he would stand in front of me and hit me. WINFREY: While you were using the bathroom? TASCHA: While I was using the bathroom. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: And it was just an ongoing– I can’t even tell you how many different times he either raped me or tried to rape me. At some point during the night, he moved our couch in front of the front door and the dryer in front of the back door and he had ripped the phones out of the wall, and told me that no one was gonna come save me. WINFREY: Yeah. And what were you thinking during this attack? I mean, I don’t know, do you-can you think? TASCHA: No. At first, I was in shock. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: This was my husband. WINFREY: Yeah, that’s why I asked. TASCHA: And the first time that he did hit me– ’cause he had never laid a hand on me before, I was in shock and I was upset because I just–I couldn’t believe. WINFREY: Had you ever thought that he would hit you? Had he ever, you know, displayed this kind of, you know, rage? TASCHA: He had displayed rage before. There were times that he had taken everything off of our walls and threw them on the floor and stomped on them and then I was made to pick them up and make things nice again like nothing had happened. There were holes in our walls and broken chairs, but he had never laid a hand on me. And so I never thought that he would physically take it out on me. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. What was it that sent him off in the car when you were coming back? You said he, you know, oftentimes thought that you were flirting with his friend or engage–was there something– I know that there’s nothing that you could say that justifies this. But was it something in particular that happened? TASCHA: I think at the point whenever, you know, we were arguing and he hit me, but then he had stopped the car. And whenever he had gotten out and gotten in the back seat with me, some point, I told myself throughout my life that when a man hits me, that’s it. WINFREY: Mm-hmm, good for you. TASCHA: That’s the breaking point. WINFREY: Good for you. TASCHA: Unfortunately, that was a little too late. You know, it should have been whenever he degrades me or makes me do things I don’t feel comfortable with. But that’s what I told myself when he hits me and whenever he hit me, I told myself that’s it. I’m gonna divorce him, and I told him that. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: I told him that this was enough. That I couldn’t do this anymore. And I think he knew I was serious. WINFREY: Okay, so you had been verbally abused many times before? Or–and degraded, as you say? TASCHA: Yeah. WINFREY: So this is a photo of Tascha shortly after the attack. Do you remember what you were thinking when this photo was taken? TASCHA: You know, I was still in shock. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: Because it was someone that I loved, that I had vowed to be with forever. You know, we had a child together. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: And… WINFREY: Where was the baby during all of this? TASCHA: It happened to be his birthday, so it was one of our nights that we had gotten to go out and do something as adults. And so she was with her Mimi that evening so she wasn’t at home. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. How badly were you injured? TASCHA: I was unrecognizable. Most of the injuries I had were on the left side of my face… WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: …because every time he hit me, that’s where the blows would land. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: And I couldn’t hear for a short period. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: And I couldn’t see for a while. And my jaw was dislocated and my nose was cracked. WINFREY: So he put the washer or dryer at the back of the door, sofa in front of the door. Raped you repeatedly for over three hours. Beat you. How did you escape? TASCHA: At the end of it, he said, well, let’s go to sleep now. And I laid there until I thought he was good and asleep. And then I crawled onto the floor and out the back and out a window. WINFREY: Hmm. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Well, the message that Tascha wants to get to you today and our later guest, and the reason why I wanted to do this show is to let everybody who hears her voice to know that if you are forced into sex by anybody, that is called rape. Even if it’s your husband, your boyfriend or an intimate partner. Rape is rape. And all 50 states now say that is true. That is the law. We’ll be right back. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Coming up, the violent secret Tascha’s husband had been hiding for years. And find out what happened to his first wife when we come back. TASCHA: He was sentenced for domestic abuse, assault and battery, two years. Rape by force, 20 years. Forcible sodomy, 20 years. Rape by instrumentation, five years. And another count of rape by instrumentation for five years. FEMALE, INTERVIEWER: What do they mean by that? TASCHA: He raped me with a bottle of body spray and then a bottle of shampoo. And so that’s where he got those charges. WINFREY: Tascha’s ex-husband Gerald Ray Johnson was sentenced to 52 years in prison. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: The sentence was later reduced, however, to 20–the sentence was later reduced to 22 years. So that means he’ll get out when? TASCHA: That means he’s eligible for parole, it even fell into the 8020 law. So he has to do 80 percent of his time. So, he’s eligible for parole in about 2019. WINFREY: 2019. Do you still fear him? TASCHA: I don’t. WINFREY: You don’t? WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Good for you. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Well, you know, I know my intention and your intention are aligned in that we want women to know, first of all, that rape is rape. And that all 50 states say that you can be raped by anybody, even your husband. And you were one of those women who didn’t know that, and I’m sure that there are many women who are watching us throughout the world right now, who also didn’t know that. So you were saying to me during commercial break, and I go, let’s save it for the audience. You were saying? TASCHA: I was saying that, you know, aside from this night, our dating relationship, our marriage, I had been raped by him many times. Many times I said no. Many times I said no, I don’t want to do that. And I didn’t have a choice. And because he was my husband, you know, I thought that–I never associated what was happening as being rape. It never crossed my mind because he was my husband. He was someone I loved. I was, you know, I was his wife, and I never thought of it being rape. WINFREY: Even though you’d said no and I don’t want to do this, and so you would go along with it or he would force himself upon you? TASCHA: Both. WINFREY: Both. TASCHA: I mean there were times that I had to go along with it because I was fearful. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: And there were times that he did force himself on me. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. But you didn’t know to call that rape? TASCHA: But I didn’t know to call it rape. WINFREY: Yeah. I was saying to her that–saying to Tascha during the commercial break, because so many women, you know, take the vows, you know, they do the traditional vows and it’s to love, honor and cherish, ’til death do us part. And they believe that anything that goes in between that, even me being demeaned and dehumanized means I’m supposed to stick to that vow. TASCHA: Well, I think the vows are important. I think it’s the, you know– I do believe that the vows are important. The vows that I have now with my husband are important. But I know that he respects me. WINFREY: Yeah. TASCHA: And there’s no way that he would cross that line. WINFREY: Yeah. That’s why I think the vows need to include a line about respect because, obviously, there wasn’t a woman at the meeting when they made those vows. [LAUGHTER] WINFREY: Whenever that committee made those vows. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: No women present to say, hello, could we keep respect in there? Yes. And so I understand this wasn’t the first time this had happened, obviously, with you and also in his previous relationship with his previous wife. TASCHA: He was married before me. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: And he had–he was convicted of a misdemeanor of domestic violence for something similar. WINFREY: Well, you had all the signs. TASCHA: I was unaware. WINFREY: Yeah. TASCHA: You know, he was a master manipulator. WINFREY: Uh-huh. TASCHA: And so I knew that, that there was a previous wife and there had been something. But the story that I’d gotten from him was that, you know, she was just saying this. His family backed it up. His friends backed it up. They all told me the same story. And so, of course, this man that I loved, that’s who I believed. WINFREY: Yeah. You couldn’t see him being that person. TASCHA: No. WINFREY: Yeah. TASCHA: I couldn’t see him being this mean person because, you know, he was my husband and I loved him. And, you know, it wasn’t always bad or I wouldn’t have been there. You know, there were good times and that’s what I… WINFREY: But let’s go back to what you were saying earlier, which I think is so important for every woman to recognize. At any time, you are made to feel less than who you know yourself to be, that that’s when you are walking the line and those are your first red flags. How did that first start to show itself with you, where you were made to feel less than who you know you are? TASCHA: It was very gradual. WINFREY: Yeah. TASCHA: And I don’t even think I even realized it. I don’t think that I realized that my self-esteem was low… WINFREY: Right. TASCHA: …that I was alienated from my family, that he controlled me and that he had this power over me. I don’t even think that I even realized that it was occurring. But it was probably a good six months into our relationship that I, you know, looking back now, that I think things started to change. WINFREY: How much role did that crown play in you trying to keep up the facade? ‘Cause we started out the show with you allowing us to see the crown… TASCHA: Mm-hmm. WINFREY: …and, you know, running tape of when you won the Mrs. Oklahoma crown. How much role did–how much of a role did that play in your trying to, you know, continue that, all that that crown meant? TASCHA: Mm-hmm. For me, it didn’t play a huge role because I’m pretty– I’m not ashamed of being a victim… WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: …of rape… WINFREY: Mm-hmm. TASCHA: …and domestic violence. And so I’m pretty open. So if I can help someone, then I will. WINFREY: Yeah. TASCHA: If I can share my story, I will. WINFREY: Great. Great. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Well, I think you’ve opened a lot of eyes today. Thank you for being here, Tascha. We’ll be right back with another story that will just shock you because she was carrying a gun and still allowed herself to be in a position where she believed that she couldn’t speak up. We’ll be right back. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Coming up, she says she never reported what was happening, because she didn’t think anyone would believe her, and she was a deputy sheriff. DORIS: All the arguments, most of the arguments and most of the fights happened in this bedroom here. There was an actual time where he forced me to have sex with him, and it was in that corner right there. And, of course, I didn’t report it because I didn’t think anyone would believe me. He was my husband. INTERVIEWER: Tell me what you’re thinking. DORIS: Thinking that someone that I loved so dearly would do this to me, ’cause I trusted him. He’s my husband. I would rather have been raped by a stranger I think it would have been a lot easier to have been raped by a stranger than my own husband. WINFREY: Well, thank you for coming forward. DORIS: You’re welcome. WINFREY: And so you’re in the business of protecting us from people like that who do harm to women and other people. DORIS: I am. WINFREY: Yes. And you said you’d rather be– would rather have been raped by a stranger than your own husband. Why? DORIS: Absolutely. There would have been no emotional ties there. This is someone that I trusted, someone–I just felt so betrayed, so–I loved him. I had feelings for this man. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: Even though we were separated at the time, I still had feelings for this man. And… WINFREY: How long had you been married to him? DORIS: Five years. WINFREY: Five years. Mm-hmm. Did you have children? DORIS: Thank goodness, no. WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: No children with him. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. And so the night that you described where were you forced into the corner, as we’re talking to Tascha, were there many times when this happened? DORIS: Yes, there were times where I just gave in… WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: …because I didn’t–I wanted to avoid any conflict with him. DORIS: I wanted to avoid any fights. He would always say certain things like, you don’t want to have sex with me ’cause you don’t love me. Or you must be having an affair if you don’t want to have sex with me. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: Things of that sort. There were times where he threatened to hurt himself… WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: …because in his mind, I didn’t love him. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: So, but that was–that one time I explaining there was I would have considered that rape. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. And what happened? Can you tell us without… DORIS: On that incident? WINFREY: Yeah. Uh-huh. DORIS: We’d been arguing that night about the same topic. Sex. WINFREY: Sex. Mm-hmm. DORIS: Same topic. That was… WINFREY: Was he always trying to control you sexually? DORIS: Always. WINFREY: Uh-huh. DORIS: Always. Everything… WINFREY: Do you think he was like a sex addict? DORIS: I believe he was a sex addict, yes. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. DORIS: He would ask me to perform acts that I was not comfortable with. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: One in particular that I never gave into, he would ask me if I would have sex with other men… WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: …while he watched. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: And that was where our problems started because I told him I would never lower myself to that level. I’d never do that. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: And that night in particular, we were arguing about that topic. He had threatened to kill himself. He actually took a knife in the kitchen and put it to his neck and said, I’m gonna kill myself if you don’t, if you don’t, you know, if you don’t take me, you know, if you don’t love me, if you don’t want to have sex with me, I’m just gonna kill myself, ’cause I can’t live without you, ’cause I had spoken to him about maybe separating that night. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. DORIS: And he says, I can’t live without you. I’m just gonna–there’s nothing worth–for me to live if you’re gonna leave me. So I was very scared of that moment. I didn’t want him… WINFREY: Scared for yourself or scared that he was gonna do something to himself? DORIS: At the moment, I was scared he was gonna do something to himself. WINFREY: So he’s manipulating you? DORIS: Absolutely. WINFREY: Right. DORIS: Absolutely. WINFREY: Right. You all can see that, right? Yeah, ’cause–yeah. DORIS: Absolutely. So I calmed him down. I told him, please, just put the knife away. I said, I love you. I don’t want you to hurt yourself. We can work things out. Which at that point, he did–it worked. He put the knife down. I took it from him. We went up to the bedroom. And he was crying, like as usual. I was crying. And basically, he said, well, if you love me, you’ll have sex with me. And I just couldn’t believe that after he had done that, that he would have the audacity to ask me to have sex with him after what he had just done. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. Meaning threatening to kill himself? DORIS: Yes. WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: Yes. And I told him, I said no. This–no. I said, we’re not gonna have sex now. How could you ask me to do that after what you just did? WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: How can you ask me to do that? He became very angry. And he says, you know, we’re gonna have sex. Basically started taking my clothes off, and I’m crying at this point. And he started saying very awful things to me, how do you like being used, and you don’t love me, and, you know, just very awful things. And that’s when he forced himself on me. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: And I cried the whole time, and he didn’t even care. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: And he was done with that and just stayed in bed just crying. And after he was done with his act, he came and he told me he was sorry. And at that point, you know, he’s my husband. I didn’t report it. WINFREY: You didn’t report it? DORIS: I did not report that incident. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: Because in my mind at the time, it wasn’t really rape. I think in my position, it would have been very difficult–in my mind, it would have been difficult for people to believe me because… WINFREY: You’re a police officer. DORIS: I’m a deputy. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: Yeah. I was thought of as very strong, which I still believe I’m very strong. But I just–I was ashamed. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: I was in denial. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: I saw a lot of this happening to other women, but in my mind, it wasn’t happening to me. I was in complete denial. So I let that one go. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: And the emotional abuse just continued after that. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. WINFREY: Interesting. If you had gone to someone else’s house–I’ll let you answer this when we come back, somebody else’s house where the exact same thing had happened. A woman says, my husband threatened to kill himself, he had a knife at his throat and then he took me upstairs and wanted to have sex and I didn’t want to have sex and he pulled my clothes off and he forced me on the bed and all these things happened and I cried the whole time, would you have thought that was rape? DORIS: Absolutely. WINFREY: We’ll be right back. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Next, what Doris’s husband did to her that landed him behind bars for life. WINFREY: I was saying to Doris during the commercial break, this is one of those seminal shows. I can feel it in my own spirit. Because just like you didn’t know or think of it as rape, because this was your husband, somebody you loved, just as Tascha said to us earlier, she never thought of it that way, and realizes now that she was raped many times even during their courtship. I’m sure that there– how many of you didn’t realize that in this audience or didn’t know that it could be called rape? Did not, did not, did not know that you could be raped by your own husband. WINFREY: Yeah, well, every year, approximately 1.5 million women are raped or physically assaulted by an intimate partner. Doris’ husband, Jaime had sexually abused her for years. When she finally found the courage to kick him out and file a restraining order, this is what happened next. DORIS: I was coming home from work, and I usually park in this side of the driveway here. When I was about to step out of the car, I noticed Jaime came from underneath the steps here and he rushed towards me and grabbed my arm. And at that point he told me, you’re coming with me. And I told him, no, I’m not. I’m not going with you. And I pull–I tried to pull away, but then he showed me his gun. And at that point, I was scared. I thought he was gonna just shoot me. So he pretty much drug me up the street and forced me into his car. He was very angry, yelling and screaming at me the whole time. I thought I was never gonna come home that night. I thought I was gonna die that night. WINFREY: Where was your gun? DORIS: That night, I had been on light duty for a couple of weeks because of a sprained ankle. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: And when we have an injury, we are not allowed, obviously, to be in uniform or to carry a weapon. WINFREY: Okay. DORIS: So I was in civilian attire. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: I didn’t carry a weapon. He knew my schedule. He knew I was on light duty. So he took advantage of that WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: So I leave work that night, about 10:00 that night. And normal night home, I start heading home, same route I always take. I pulled up to the driveway. When I first pulled up, I… WINFREY: And at this point, were you all separated or… DORIS: We had been separated for about two months. WINFREY: Yeah.
WINFREY: Okay. DORIS: At this point, I had the restraining order in place already. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: My locks on my house were changed. WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: I had changed the locks on the house. WINFREY: And this is obviously after the incident that you told us about earlier? DORIS: Correct. WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: Correct. So as I was driving up to my driveway, I–it was a little strange because there was a trashcan sitting where I normally park… WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: …a big trash can. It was a little darker than normal. I thought maybe the lights just weren’t turned on yet. WINFREY: Yeah. And I’m gonna stop you right here… DORIS: Mm-hmm. WINFREY: …only because many years ago, Gavin De Becker, who now runs a major security firm, wrote a book called “The Gift of Fear.” And in that book, he talks about–the very first page, he starts to talk about how–and I’m interrupting you because everybody gets the signs, the little whispers, you come in the driveway. DORIS: Mm-hmm WINFREY: And that’s what it feels like. It feels like hmm, that trashcan shouldn’t be there. Hmm, the lights are a little darker than they normally are. Hmm. DORIS: Mm-hmm. WINFREY: So as you’re pulling in, you start to get, you know, that’s the energy signals that’s something is off. DORIS: That’s right. WINFREY: Okay. Continue. DORIS: So I drive up–so instead of driving up to that side of the driveway, I go to the right of the trashcan. WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: Still, it wasn’t clicking… WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: …that something… WINFREY: But you are thinking hmm… DORIS: That’s right. WINFREY: ‘Cause that’s what a whisper is. DORIS: That’s right. WINFREY: Okay. Go ahead. DORIS: So I park–I opened the door, I go to go grab my purse. And as I turn around to step out of the car, I see him rushing towards me. WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: He’s wearing dark clothing and a hat. Grabs my arm, and he says, you’re gonna come with me. And at that point, I thought, okay, you know, I can probably fight him off, maybe scream. Somebody will hear me. My family was inside my home at this point. And this is how, you know, he just didn’t care. He grabbed my arm and I said, no, I’m not gonna go with you. No. And that’s when he showed me his gun. He says, no, you’re coming with me. WINFREY: Where did he take you? DORIS: He took me to a little town called Boone, Colorado. WINFREY: Hmm. DORIS: It’s in the middle of nowhere. WINFREY: And what did he do to you? DORIS: And that’s where he forced me to do sexual acts on him, and that’s where he raped me. WINFREY: We’ll be right back. WINFREY: After years of abuse, Doris, a sheriff’s deputy and mother of two, was kidnapped and raped at gun point by her own husband, Jaime Duran. Jamie is currently serving life in prison without parole. WINFREY: So why did he get life in prison without parole? DORIS: The reason why he received life in prison was because he kidnapped me with a weapon. That’s the highest felony charge you can get. So it’s up there with murder in the first degree. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: So that is a mandatory sentence in the state of Colorado… WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: …life without parole. WINFREY: Wow. Great. DORIS: Yes. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Go, Colorado. Wow. Did he ever apologize for what he did? DORIS: Never did. WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: Never showed one ounce of remorse. WINFREY: Yeah. And your oldest daughter… DORIS: Hmm. WINFREY: …who’s now 12… DORIS: Yes. WINFREY: …who’s not his children, neither of the girls are his children… DORIS: Thank goodness, no. WINFREY: Yeah. Testified against him at the sentencing. What was that like for you? DORIS: She’s–my girls are my heroes. WINFREY: Hmm. DORIS: They were so strong throughout this whole thing. WINFREY: Really? DORIS: It was very emotional to watch her testify and watch her give her statement, but, wow, a 12-year-old and she was willing to go up there, and it was voluntary. WINFREY: Yeah. DORIS: She was willing to go up there and speak her mind. WINFREY: Yeah. What did she say that really struck you? DORIS: She said that Jaime deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life because of what he put her mommy through and family through. And that–if he were to get out, she would be in fear of her life. WINFREY: You were married to him for six years? DORIS: Five years married, six years together. WINFREY: Together. Why didn’t you report it sooner? DORIS: I was in complete denial. I was in–see, our problems started probably three years into the marriage. WINFREY: Mm-hmm. DORIS: He was perfect at first. He was just this charming, wonderful man. And once the problems began, I just–I was in complete denial, didn’t see, didn’t notice the signs. WINFREY: Yeah. You wanted to continue to believe in the dream that you had for the marriage… DORIS: Right. WINFREY: …instead of looking at the reality of the marriage… DORIS: Absolutely. WINFREY: …which is what gets a lot of people in trouble. DORIS: Absolutely. WINFREY: You’re still holding on to what it could be, what you hope it will be instead of facing what it really is. DORIS: That’s right. WINFREY: Yeah. Well, thank you for being here to share your story with us today. DORIS: You’re welcome. WINFREY: Thank you, Doris. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Coming up, why aren’t women reporting marital rape? Well, a lot of people aren’t reporting because of exactly what I just said, you’re still holding on to the dream. If you look at the reality of what your real-life situation is, you would be gone. We’ll talk about that when we come back. WINFREY: Lisa Bloch Rodwin is an attorney who recently prosecuted a landmark case in Western New York where a husband there was sentenced to 50 years in prison for raping his wife. It is the first marital rape case to be tried there in 25 years. And I heard that spousal rape is one of the most, what, unreported sex crimes in the world really? Why is that? LISA BLOCH RODWIN: Well, there’s a lot of reasons both on a micro level and a macro level. Internally to the victim, as you heard from the two women who were brave enough to come today, they didn’t see themselves as rape victims. You’re embarrassed. You think I took a vow. And just remember, we used to say, love, honor, cherish and obey. WINFREY: Yeah. Ms. RODWIN: And obey meant everything, including sex. WINFREY: Yeah. Well, yeah. Ms. RODWIN: So that if you don’t see-if you think your husband is entitled… WINFREY: Most women have removed the obey. Haven’t they taken that out? [LAUGHTER] Ms. RODWIN: We hope. WINFREY: There are a couple people still using the obey. But… [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: …as I said earlier and I know a lot of bible critics are gonna call me, it’s okay, but–there wasn’t a woman present at that meeting when that vow was put together, the obey part. [LAUGHTER] WINFREY: Yes. Ms. RODWIN: But even… WINFREY: And so, yeah, that’s what I was saying. And so you believe that everything fits under the–I’m just supposed to take it no matter what? Ms. RODWIN: Absolutely. And not just that I’m supposed to take it but I’m supposed to be here and be here for him because I love him, because I’m the mother of his children, because I stood before God and took those vows, because everybody expects me to be a good wife, because I’m blaming myself. WINFREY: Yeah. Ms. RODWIN: I did some–maybe I brought this on myself. WINFREY: Yeah. Well, clearly, that is what a lot of women feel. What I want you to do is to let them know that if there is no respect and what Tascha was saying here earlier, the moment you’re in a relationship where you are feeling degraded, and I was saying to her, less than who you know yourself to be, and I know what happens is over time, if people keep telling you you’re nothing, you start to believe that you’re nothing. Ms. RODWIN: Absolutely. WINFREY: And she was saying it’s subtle. And Doris was saying it’s subtle. Ms. RODWIN: But the bottom line is if somebody is forcing you to have sex, it’s rape. It doesn’t matter if you’re wearing a wedding ring, it doesn’t matter if he’s the mother–the father of your children, it doesn’t matter if you’ve been living together for 20 years. If somebody is threatening you or forcing you or you are fearful that you have to do this, it’s rape. It’s as if somebody pulls you under a bush in the dark with a knife at your throat. But the difference is what people need to know is now, and it’s only been with–less than two decades, every single state in the United States says it’s a crime for a husband to rape his wife. Now, you can–you need to come forward. You need to tell a doctor. You need to tell a friend. You need to tell the police. WINFREY: Okay. What’s the difference between rape and, yeah, I don’t feel like it. Ms. RODWIN: Well, there’s a big difference. I mean, when… [LAUGHTER] Ms. RODWIN: I’m married. WINFREY: Yeah. Not tonight. [LAUGHTER] Ms. RODWIN: Right. WINFREY: Yeah. Ms. RODWIN: I’ve got a headache. WINFREY: Yeah. Yeah. Let’s make that clear. Ms. RODWIN: There’s a very big difference. WINFREY: Yeah. Ms. RODWIN: Not in the mood and then agreeing to after somebody is convincing you, that’s not rape. But somebody threatening violence, saying I’m gonna kill you or kill myself. In both of these cases… WINFREY: Yeah. Ms. RODWIN: …they threatened either homicide or suicide. WINFREY: Or even if they don’t say I’m gonna kill you, force you to do something you don’t want to do. Ms. RODWIN: Absolutely. Force you physically, not just emotionally. Pinning you down, hurting you, threatening you with other violence in the future, even if they’re not hitting you at that moment. They’ve hit you before, and you know if you don’t do this, you’ll get hurt again, that’s rape. WINFREY: Wow. So you wanted to say what? Hello. AUDIENCE MEMBER: I wanted to say a lot, but I’ll try to be really brief. First of all, with a lot of these men, they’re very manipulative. And you don’t realize you’re being abused until unfortunately it’s too late ’cause they start off being very, you know, mentally abusing you. And then it becomes physical and unfortunately it then becomes rape. That’s one thing. And the other thing is other than the state of Connecticut, where the laws are very different, and I had an ex-husband who has an–who’s on probation and who was recently arrested with a deadly–with assault and weapons possession show up at my house. and the police officers told me maybe I was mistaken. Maybe, you know, maybe I had him mixed up with somebody else. But like what you said before, Oprah, you have this feeling in your gut that this is not right and you have to follow it. And I was right. He did come back. They did arrest him. But they could not keep him in prison because he was on probation, but I did not have an order of protection. So for anybody that’s out there that has a husband or ex-husband or somebody that has abused them in the past where they are on probation, make sure that you go get a protective order to back it up because this guy was out for two weeks at large, you know? And, you know, it was a very scary situation. So, that’s it. WINFREY: Thank you for sharing that. We’ll be right back. Back in a moment. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: So if someone’s watching now, they’re in a relationship where there partner has raped them in the past, they recognize that after hearing the stories of Tascha and Doris here today, what should they be doing? Ms. RODWIN: First of all, document. If somebody’s hurting you and–or raping you, you need to keep a journal and keep it in a safe place. Second of all, if someone rapes you whether it’s your husband, your boyfriend, whoever, you go to the hospital within 48 hours. You have a rape kit. There are trained nurses, sexual assault nurse examiners. They know how to do evidence collection. Because what happens at these trials when these women went on trial is that the jury will look to the doctors. Did they see evidence of violence? Did they see evidence of injury? You need to have the documentation from the hospital. File… WINFREY: So who has the rape kit? The… Ms. RODWIN: Hospitals. WINFREY: The hospitals do. Okay. Okay. Ms. RODWIN: Every hospital in the United States. File a police report. Even if you don’t–not ready to do charges, file the police report, go to the hospital, make a record. So… WINFREY: Within 48 hours? Ms. RODWIN: Absolutely. WINFREY: Okay. Ms. RODWIN: And tell somebody. WINFREY: Okay. WINFREY: What’s the first thing you should do immediately after you are raped? RODWIN: Find a safe place. Find a way to get yourself to a safe place. And if you’re ready to–regardless of whether you’re ready to file charges, tell somebody where you’re going and go to a hospital and file the police report. WINFREY: Yeah. And I will say again, document it because you were here, we first met you when–for the case for the woman whose husband had taped her. Ms. RODWIN: Right. WINFREY: You all remember that? And he put the beating of her on tape and the child had taped the whole thing, and it was not her testimony, but the friend at work who had documented every time she had come in to work and was bruised that really put him in jail. Is that not true? Ms. RODWIN: Absolutely. WINFREY: It’s the documentation from the friend. [APPLAUSE] WINFREY: Because when it came down to it, it was her word against his word. You know, and he was saying I didn’t do anything. But it was the friend, the co- worker at work, who had been secretly documenting every time she came in bruised that put him in jail. Ms. RODWIN: Every time a perpetrator is gonna say she wanted it, they use a consent defense. And you need to show you did not consent. You have a right to say no. WINFREY: We’ll be right back. WINFREY: Any time you’re forced to have sex against your will, it’s rape, even if it’s your husband. And if you need help, you call the National Domestic Violence hotline. There’s the numb er on your screen. 1-800-799- SAFE. 799-7233. And for more information, go to Oprah.com.